05-24-2023, 02:43 PM
Howdy all, this is about the hwh leveling system and not valid
I get calls and emails and texts several times a week on these valves. as you know i sell rebuild kits for the valves that allow you to rebuild one entire 6 pack for about the cost or less of one single complete new valve.
i wanted to share what i have learned about these simple valves and give some tips on rebuilding and installing them.
what i have to say is based on helping alot of people with these things, and having rebuilt and installed them on many coaches.
there are several ways these things can leak and fail. that said, these valves were meant for a zillion cycles. a zillion cycles in a CLEAN air system, which our coaches are NOT.
how can they fail.....
1. the seal on the plunger inside the stem that rides on the orfice gets compromised causing the valve to leak. causing the bags controlled by that valve to deflate. the seal most likely gets compromised by dirt or rust or debris in the air system that gets inside the valve between the plunger seal and the orfice, causing to to keep it partially open and or scored. the spring that holds the plunger on the orfice is only strong enough to seal it with no debris. if you take the valve apart and see moisture and junk inside the valve body, it is possible that could, and i say could cause an issue.
let me give you a scenario where the rear raise valve is leaking by alot. you are driving and the raise and lower valves are not activated, but the rear passenger side raise is leaking. now the passenger side rear bags are getting air from the valve leaking, and the ride height travel valves are supplying air to the ride height valve and if the raise is leaking enough to overpower the ride height valve letting air out, then the coach will raise up on the rear passenger side while you are driving. dont ask me how i know.....it happened to me.
it is also possible that the plunger seal has gotten scored by the orfice such that it doesnt seal all the way when not static (with the spring holding it down, not energized) the first picture below is a plunger with a seal that is fairly well deeply grooved. the orifce has sharp edges to help it seal.
another scenario is if you are parked overnight and you have leveled it and do not have it on auto level. a 95 newell was here at my place this week where his passenger side rear would drop in a few hours. i took the six pack apart and found that there was a problem with the lower valve on the passenger side. it had a mangled outer O ring on the valve body that was letting air escape slowly. that valve had been screwed into the manifold wayyyy too tight and it gouged the O ring. since i had the valve apart, i also put new plungers and springs and all new o rings in it since it was apart. these valves do not need to be much more than slightly snug when you install them. the next picture is of the O ring that goes in the outer bottom of the valve body. this is the one that was leaking.
another scenario is what i have seen a number of times. this happens when someone is installing the valve. and comes from over tightening it. the valve bodies i have seen in several materials. the older ones are mostly brass. the newer ones seem to be mostly aluminum. both can have the same issue if you over tighten them and you would think that if you just rebuilt the valve that there would be nothing wrong.
btw, all of this assumes you use some type of oring grease on the 2 orings that touch the six pack body from the valve.
this next picture shows a valve body that has been overtightened. it distorted the inner 0 ring groove such that it broke loose at the bottom and now has a hole that can leak by. this one is brass. it happens on the aluminum ones too.
btw, the brass or aluminum valve bodies are exactly the same. just a different supplier. the stems that hold the plunger and spring are all the same. the 4th picture is of a 6 pack that has valves that have the brass body and the ones in the travel position on the right are black aluminum.
when you get into the early 90s and back they used KIP valves that had a coil that was completely covered with a metal case. the parts are interchange with that valve and the newer style. the next two pictures show that coil. some of the early kip valves had a slightly larger orfice. since the rear of my 02 comes up very slowly, i put a larger orfice valve in the raise position on both sides in the back.
i have found that there was batch of valves that were labeled rap1940s that were completely different. and i have found that they failed alot more. they had a silver aluminum body and a different style plunger and spring and they do not work with any of the parts that i have. i dont know that newell used them but other brands certainly did. but i think for a very short time.
these things are pretty simple. as far as i have seen, the 6 packs in newells all have the same valve location placement. so i have attached a highly refined sketch. on all that i have seen the travel valves are nearest the firewall that the manifold is mounted too.
o rings are cheap so always replace them. the stem comes out easily is you have one of the spanner wrenches. if not, then use a vice on the body and gently use pliers on the stem. the stem is hollow for the plunger to go in so dont distort it.
btw, NO o ring grease on the inner oring between the stem and valve body. you dont want to junk up in the inside of the valve where the air flows.
the coils almost never go bad.
i take a felt tip maker an mark on the 6 pack manifold what each valve is doing. just so it is easy to remember next time.
well, thats my 2 cents worth. remember every newell is different so apply common sense to if any of this for sure applies to your coach.
foretravel used the same valves as did alot of the SOB's.
i just tried to cover some of the things, there is certainly more scenarios.
be sure to the get the right coils on in the right positions.....and use o ring grease....clean them up when you have them apart and dont overtighten when you put the valves back on.
tom
I get calls and emails and texts several times a week on these valves. as you know i sell rebuild kits for the valves that allow you to rebuild one entire 6 pack for about the cost or less of one single complete new valve.
i wanted to share what i have learned about these simple valves and give some tips on rebuilding and installing them.
what i have to say is based on helping alot of people with these things, and having rebuilt and installed them on many coaches.
there are several ways these things can leak and fail. that said, these valves were meant for a zillion cycles. a zillion cycles in a CLEAN air system, which our coaches are NOT.
how can they fail.....
1. the seal on the plunger inside the stem that rides on the orfice gets compromised causing the valve to leak. causing the bags controlled by that valve to deflate. the seal most likely gets compromised by dirt or rust or debris in the air system that gets inside the valve between the plunger seal and the orfice, causing to to keep it partially open and or scored. the spring that holds the plunger on the orfice is only strong enough to seal it with no debris. if you take the valve apart and see moisture and junk inside the valve body, it is possible that could, and i say could cause an issue.
let me give you a scenario where the rear raise valve is leaking by alot. you are driving and the raise and lower valves are not activated, but the rear passenger side raise is leaking. now the passenger side rear bags are getting air from the valve leaking, and the ride height travel valves are supplying air to the ride height valve and if the raise is leaking enough to overpower the ride height valve letting air out, then the coach will raise up on the rear passenger side while you are driving. dont ask me how i know.....it happened to me.
it is also possible that the plunger seal has gotten scored by the orfice such that it doesnt seal all the way when not static (with the spring holding it down, not energized) the first picture below is a plunger with a seal that is fairly well deeply grooved. the orifce has sharp edges to help it seal.
another scenario is if you are parked overnight and you have leveled it and do not have it on auto level. a 95 newell was here at my place this week where his passenger side rear would drop in a few hours. i took the six pack apart and found that there was a problem with the lower valve on the passenger side. it had a mangled outer O ring on the valve body that was letting air escape slowly. that valve had been screwed into the manifold wayyyy too tight and it gouged the O ring. since i had the valve apart, i also put new plungers and springs and all new o rings in it since it was apart. these valves do not need to be much more than slightly snug when you install them. the next picture is of the O ring that goes in the outer bottom of the valve body. this is the one that was leaking.
another scenario is what i have seen a number of times. this happens when someone is installing the valve. and comes from over tightening it. the valve bodies i have seen in several materials. the older ones are mostly brass. the newer ones seem to be mostly aluminum. both can have the same issue if you over tighten them and you would think that if you just rebuilt the valve that there would be nothing wrong.
btw, all of this assumes you use some type of oring grease on the 2 orings that touch the six pack body from the valve.
this next picture shows a valve body that has been overtightened. it distorted the inner 0 ring groove such that it broke loose at the bottom and now has a hole that can leak by. this one is brass. it happens on the aluminum ones too.
btw, the brass or aluminum valve bodies are exactly the same. just a different supplier. the stems that hold the plunger and spring are all the same. the 4th picture is of a 6 pack that has valves that have the brass body and the ones in the travel position on the right are black aluminum.
when you get into the early 90s and back they used KIP valves that had a coil that was completely covered with a metal case. the parts are interchange with that valve and the newer style. the next two pictures show that coil. some of the early kip valves had a slightly larger orfice. since the rear of my 02 comes up very slowly, i put a larger orfice valve in the raise position on both sides in the back.
i have found that there was batch of valves that were labeled rap1940s that were completely different. and i have found that they failed alot more. they had a silver aluminum body and a different style plunger and spring and they do not work with any of the parts that i have. i dont know that newell used them but other brands certainly did. but i think for a very short time.
these things are pretty simple. as far as i have seen, the 6 packs in newells all have the same valve location placement. so i have attached a highly refined sketch. on all that i have seen the travel valves are nearest the firewall that the manifold is mounted too.
o rings are cheap so always replace them. the stem comes out easily is you have one of the spanner wrenches. if not, then use a vice on the body and gently use pliers on the stem. the stem is hollow for the plunger to go in so dont distort it.
btw, NO o ring grease on the inner oring between the stem and valve body. you dont want to junk up in the inside of the valve where the air flows.
the coils almost never go bad.
i take a felt tip maker an mark on the 6 pack manifold what each valve is doing. just so it is easy to remember next time.
well, thats my 2 cents worth. remember every newell is different so apply common sense to if any of this for sure applies to your coach.
foretravel used the same valves as did alot of the SOB's.
i just tried to cover some of the things, there is certainly more scenarios.
be sure to the get the right coils on in the right positions.....and use o ring grease....clean them up when you have them apart and dont overtighten when you put the valves back on.
tom
2002 45'8" Newell Coach 608 Series 60 DDEC4/Allison World 6 Speed HD4000MH
