[folivier]

Battleborn 100 AH batteries with built-in BMS and 10 year warranty (8 year full replacement, 2 year pro-rated) are on sale today only for $849 each.  Normal price is $949 each.
I just bought 3 for my Foretravel.
https://battlebornbatteries.com

[bikestuff]

Forest,
So these are direct replacement for AGM bats? I have six house batteries that are at the end of their life. Should I get 6 of these? Can you guess at how much retrofit will be required. (These are much, much smaller than the 8D bats I have now). I see that my lifeline bats have 255 Ah per battery...yet these are 100Ah. Hmmm.

I see that their BMS is built in. I have Magnum inverter. They say that this is one of their supported inverters....yet I don’t see a lithium setting in the inverter.

I am ready to pull the trigger, but don’t wanna make a mistake.

Bill

[folivier]

These and Lifeblue are both as close to direct replacement as available now, at least at this price range. Victron and a couple others are about twice the price.
The guys at Battleborn are very helpful with answering any questions. I have an older Prosine inverter which they say will work fine with these on either the agm or gel settings (don't recall offhand but BB can answer any questions). I also have a Victron Smartsolar controller which is easily programmable to the settings needed. Lots of good info on these at airforums.com
I'm replacing 3 8D gel cells, similar to 3 agms. BB recommended 3 of their 100AH batteries to be equivalent. So 6 should be a direct replacement for your 6 8D. Or you could do a test to see how many amp hours you use overnight and go from there. I also have a Victron BMV 712 so can tell how many amp hours I'm using over a time period. Or use a Kill a watt meter.
To fit these you could install 6 in the same footprint of 2 8Ds. So either remove the battery rack or use it for storage. You'll gain storage and save over 700#!
One other issue is charging via the engine alternator. These will take as many amps as possible to charge so it's possible to eat belts or overheat the alternator. Since I have solar panels I plan to install a battery shutoff switch between the isolator and the batteries. That way I can let the solar partially charge them, or generator/inverter, before I turn on the alternator. BB also has a battery isolation manager but I need to talk with them to see if this will protect the alternator.
This is a quote from BB about charging parameters: "Lets talk about charging in general before we dive into specifics.

• Acceptable range 14.2-14.6 volts on Bulk and Absorb
• Absorption time should be about ½ hour per 100 ah of battery capacity
• No Equalize needed, but if you can set it yourself, use 14.4-14.6 volts, this will help rebulk certain devices that need to get below 12.6 volts to rebulk. You can use the manual equalize if set properly to initiate a bulk charge
• Float 13.6 or lower is great, you can even run a solar charge controller that is not settable at a 13.8 volt setting. The confusion about not needing a float is a great point, thanks for bringing it up. We do not require the batteries, but since so many devices have this setting already, we ask you to set below the natural float level of the lifepo4 batteries. "

It appears that there is a lot more empirical knowledge about charging, floating, etc. than when I did this with individual Winston cells a few years ago. And in doing the research the last few months individual cells are actually more expensive when you add in the BMS and other items needed. I'd give BB a call or email them with specific questions for your inverter and other questions.
Just do it!

[Richard]

Bill, your inverter charger has infinite programmability to work with the LiIon batts. And ir can be configured to charge and display State of Charge. I have mine set up that way.

Second, you can safely use 80 % of a LiOn batt, but only 50% of a lead acid or AGM batt so 1 amp hour lead acid is equivalent to .625 amp hour of LiOn, or in the specific case of 6 X 255 = 1530 total, 765 usable The equivalent in LiOn would be 956 amp hours. 956 X .8 = 765

I just don't think you need that much capacity unless you are boondocking off the grid in a climate that doesn't require you to run the generator for AirCon.

Some will run the LiOns more aggressively and use 90 percent of the total.

Would I convert good batteries to LiOn, No. Would I strongly consider LiOn if I needed batteries. Yes, with the caveat you have to do some self education, because they are not drop ins for AGM. Once you educate, understand how they behave differently, and get the charger set up to your liking, then you just don't pay any attention to them any more.

[77newell]

Educating yourself is vital for seeing if in fact you will benefit from converting and then, if you do convert, how to configure your system so that you achieve the greatest benefits.

In the Sprinter conversion I'm working on the lithium is mostly advantageous when you boondock a lot and drive regularly with a second engine driven alternator with its own voltage regulator charging the lithium batteries. If you want to wear out your brain, just peruse the lithium system information on the Class B Forum website. Beware, it may short circuit your synapses, but the information there is deep and wide. In Sprinters the big driver is for all electric vans with 2-8 hours of A/C use. There seems to be a great desire to eliminate propane generators since many consider them to be noisy maintenance hogs. B-vans are trending towards lithium but that is far from meaning it's sensible in all situations.

Learn baby learn, and enjoy.

[folivier]

Good points Richard & Jon. Definitely have to understand the differences between LiFePO4 and lead acid. I guess if you're considering these you first need to determine how long you'll keep your coach and how much boon docking you'll be doing. If you're in it for 5+ years it's probably worth doing. And if you do a lot of boon docking again it will probably be better. That's one reason we went with the Foretravel, simpler systems, less battery usage, aquahot, gas stove. It was a big step down from our Newell but fits us right now and for our trip to Alaska next year.

[bikestuff]

Thanks to Forest, Richard and Jon for insight.

Today, I walked much farther out onto the plank ($$$ wise) than I usually do without research, but I ordered 6 of the BattleBorn batts today.

Since I am at end of life on my AGMs, I needed to do something. I was planning on new LifeLine batts....but since these are essentially drop in replacements...its kinda a no-brainer.

I am expecting some adventure when I take out the old bats and have to rework the shelves. I will also probably need to rework the cables. (I have a state of charge thingy that I will install with the new batteries). I will also have to reprogram my Magnum Inverter / Charger.

As I see it, this will be a fun adventure and will benefit me from the loss of about 700 lbs of weight.

I will keep you guys posted as to the progress.

bill

[encantotom]

bill, i have hydraulic battery cable crimpers....come on over.

tom