[Lance]

The 110 air compressor in the front doesn't come on even after replacing the well pump switch also. It comes on once in a while, but the rig sinks to the bottom all the time and the air gauges read 0 unless I turn on the key and then they read 20 and 35. What's up with that? The ride is always different also and I have to manually pump up the bags with the button on the HWH pad before I put it in drive mode and it takes about 10 minutes to pump it up. The drive light only comes on when I pump it up after it loses all it's air when parked.
Seems like a big deal. Is it worth a trip to HWH? Anyone been to HWH? I have a few problems with the hydraulic slides also. Just rolled the same seal for the third time in 80 uses. Each time it pops the 5,000 dollar bills just keep flying out. Never locks all 3 slides so constantly driving with the level light on.

[Fulltiming]

Sounds like you have a significant air leak and/or a leaking air tank if the rig sinks to the bottom fairly quickly. If the valves are holding and your air bags and air tanks are sound, you should be able to go for days or weeks without the rig sinking to the ground. The valves are the most common source of leak down. Really sounds more like an air issue than an HWH issue. The slides sounds like an alignment issue. Rolling a seal should be a very rare occurrence, certainly not 3 times in 80 uses or even in 800 uses.

[rheavn]

Lance,
A little background please. Is the coach new to you and these are items that have been occurring since you picked it up or every thing used to work fine and these are new problems?

Hard to diagnose problem with such mixed and limited info. "The 110 air compressor in the front doesn't come on even after replacing the
well pump switch". Then, "It comes on once in a while". Are we dealing with a 110V compressor that doesn't work at all or is intermittent?

Have you ever drained all the air tanks? There can be as many as eleven of them. Any significant water in any of them? If so, which one(s)?

"the rig sinks to the bottom all the time and the air gauges read 0 unless I turn on the key and then they read 20 and 35". Coaches that settle quickly are indicative of air leaks! Dashboard air gauges that drop to zero are indicative of air leaks! Do you have two air gauges on the dashboard? A supply gauge and a twin pin brake system gauge? Are they both dropping to zero once you shut off the engine? How long does it take for the brake system gauge to drop to zero? Both needles the same? How long does it take the supply gauge to drop to zero?

"The ride is always different" Can you explain this statement? Are you talking of ride height or the "ride" is different going down the road?

"it takes about 10 minutes to pump it up" When I first got my coach I had many air leaks, my coach settled quickly and it would take 10 minutes to come up to ride height. Once you get your air system air tight it will rise up quicker, but still take around 5-6 minutes if system is empty. You can shorten the time by using the "Raise" mode which I assume you are calling "manually pump up the bags with the button on the HWH pad".

Everything that you have described so far sounds like an air system problem and not something defective with your HWH system. Fixing leaks is something a coach owner can fix themselves if they have some basic tools, knowledge, and a safe location. Otherwise it can get very time consuming for a shop and therefore expensive for you. It is a tedious process, but worth the effort!

" Just rolled the same seal for the third time in 80 uses. Each time it pops the 5,000 dollar bills just keep flying out. Never locks all 3 slides so constantly driving with the level light on." While rolling a slide seal is not unheard of, rolling a slide seal out 3 times in 80 uses is unusual. I HAVE seen this once. The coach was at Newell and it was a clearance issue. I do not believe HWH will be of assistance on this slide issue. I would have Newell deal with this issue. They need to fix the problem, not fix the symptom.

[lbrachfe]

Sounds like a trip to Moscow,Iowa is in order where HWH is located. They are terrific people..
I also agree that 'air leaks is one of your bigger problems ...
Newell was not able as HWH was to assist me twice with issues. This is the only system on the coach that you are better off going to the OEM for serious help. Newell stopped using the HWH systems right after they built my coach 13 years ago

[Lance]

Thanks for the help. These problems have been there since I bought the coach 4 years ago. The air gauges, both the brake and supply gauges, go down at different rates. The brake gauge goes down faster than the supply gauge. I take it the brake gauge is the same air that keeps the bags full and that the front compressor works on. I had the brake system checked for air leaks and they said they didn't find any. I did have a stuck valve the other day. Is it worth it to replace all the valves after 13 years since the coach was built? It has been stored indoors most if it's life. It only has 75,000 miles on it and is in really good shape, except for all the problems. The supply lasts longer than the brake air when shut off, but it takes about 3 hours for both to be empty. Sounds like I have a few leaks around the coach. I don't hear anything and I sprayed down the brake valves and didn't see any bubbles. I guess they can work some times and not others.
Where's a good place to start to look for leaks and is there some routine to use to look for the leaks? I don't really know where to start.
also, until the other day, the gauges always read some pressure since the 12v compressor comes on to keep things working inside and the door. But now I have to turn on the key to see the 30 lbs of pressure where as 3 days ago it would always read the pressure without the key on. It's always something I guess.

[Fulltiming]

The brake gauge dropping out faster than the supply gauge means that the larger leak is in the brake system. That certainly needs to be fixed as loss of brakes is seriously dangerous. The leak is most likely at a fitting but a leak in one of the brake tanks is also possible. There is a check valve to prevent a leak in the supply system from draining the air brake tanks back into the supply tank. I have had to replace that check value on mine.

The air bags are filled from rectangular tanks located along the coach rails. Those tanks, in turn are filled from the supply tank. The problem you are having appears to be that their are multiple leaks resulting in the brake tanks, the suspension tanks and the supply tanks all running out of air. To refill all of those tanks requires a significant amount of air. Both the engine mounted air compressor and the 120 volt air compressor feed into the supply tanks but air will try to go to fill the brake tanks first (larger hoses). It is common for the brake and supply gauges to go down at different rates but unless you are pumping the brakes, the supply tank typically goes down much faster as there are so many fittings and opportunities for leaks.

The best methods for detecting air leaks are 1) sound and 2) bubbles from spraying leak detector solution (or soapy water) on each valve and fitting. Where you see bubbles forming after the solution is sprayed on (or using a sonic leak detector when you hear the leak as the probe nears the fitting or valve) you have found one potential leak. You have to fix each one, air it up, confirm that it isn't leaking at that location any more and then move on to the next location. It takes time but eventually you will get it sealed up fairly tight and the system will refill much faster.

Check the ride height valves (one in the front near the center of the coach and one on each side of the drive axle) for cracking. I have had to replace all three of my travel valves. When the plastic cracks, they can lose an enormous amount of air but may only do it when the valve is in certain positions. I have one that when the coach was on a level surface in the shop at Newell, no leak. But as soon as I took it outside to a sloped parking space and started to level it, you could hear the air rushing out of the valve. The suspension six-packs (front and rear) are a potential source of leaks, I changed all of mine at about 13 years. It is also possible to have an air leak under the dash at the brake valve. It usually doesn't happen in 13 years but the individual air tanks can start getting pin sized holes from rust if they are not kept dry. I have put the lanyard type valves on mine so I can easily drain them. The downside is that the lanyard type valves tend to not center and leak more than the petcock drain valves that are typically installed. Not sure what is causing the air pressure to read differently when the key is turned on. I have a supply gauge that used to increase as soon as the pressure started increasing but now I see the brake gauges slowly increasing and when they get to about 40 psi, then the supply gauge jumps from 0 to 40.

[encantotom]

something to keep in mind is that with the checkvalves that are there, the brake system always wins in getting air pressure. if the supply system is not leaking, but the brake system is, the brake system will drain air from the supply side. that is why if you park, and the brake pressure is higher than the supply pressure, as the brake pressure bleeds off due to a leak, that when it hits the supply pressure, the two then will go down together.

realistically, the brake pressure should hold for a long time. a common problem is that those checkvalves stick and since the supply side will always leak down, then if the checkvalves are sticking, then the brake pressure will go down at the same time and not hold.

alot of us have ultrasonic leak detectors to chase air leaks. and ALL of us chase air leaks.

tom

[rheavn]

Lance,
You have received some very good advice on finding air leaks. I would only add that when I look for leaks I do a very systematic search so that no line, tank or fitting is missed. I start in the RF basement compartment and go compartment by compartment clockwise around the coach. I then go inside the coach and check under the dash and both pocket doors. Then I go under the coach, after it is properly cribbed up, and check every line, tank and fitting. My tool of choice is an ultrasonic leak detector.

To give you an idea of what you are dealing with, I parked my coach in November. Both pins of the brake air gauge are still at 115 psi.

Your 12V compressor does not refill your supply and brake tanks like the 110V compressor does. The 12V compressor just fills a small tank in the RR wheelwell that allows you to use the pocket doors, flush the air toilets and keep your slide seals inflated.

Good Luck..........................

[ron skeen]

Man that great for the brake tanks. Dose the supply stay up that high also? Dose the ing switch have to be on for the brake tanks and supply to read? My 96 doses not but the 04 has to be on to read.

[Chester Stone]

Like Tom and Michael, I strongly recommend you buy an untrasound leak detector. With earphones that come with the unit, you will be able to hear leaks that are difficult to even get close to using the bubble system. Harbor Freight carries them and i could not check for or find air leaks without it.