[Cienzo1]

I'm seeking advice from anyone that can help me or tell me what you would do in my predicament.  I'll try to be as detailed but as short as possible and not turn this into a rant.

Last September I needed routine annual maintenance done on engine and generator.  After reading great reviews and them telling me that some coaches come from Alaska to get service done there...I picked a family owned shop in Eustis FL, Nichols RV & Truck, and was planning on waiting that day for a quick oil change and filter.  I asked the owner how much it would be to fix the electrolysis on the coach, treat and repaint the areas including other faded or scuffed areas around the coach.  The quote was $10,000 and needed to be in the shop for 4 weeks.  I agreed and asked if they could look into other minor and annoying issues while they worked on the paint and gave them a laundry list and they said they'll look into it.  I said great and left.  As I was driving home they called and said they can't move the slides in or out (I've never had a problem with the slides) and I advised them to call Newell since they knew how to walk someone over the phone and troubleshoot.  Days later they inspected the coach and found a couple air bags and shocks that needed to be replaced.  I asked them to quote installation on new air bags and shocks and they said about an hour per shock and airbag.  So I ordered all new shocks and airbags and shipped them to the shop in October.  So far so good.

Fast forward to December and a 21 email thread later with status updates, part orders, etc, when I decided to get a revised price quote (with a mental estimate of around $13,000-$15,000 and I already paid for parts myself).  They said they'd have that for me by the end of the day. 5pm came and went.  Next day I called again.  5pm came and went.  3rd day I called again.  4:55pm they call and said the price is up to $35,000!  WHAT???  I asked them to stop maintenance immediately and give me an invoice so I can see where things went off track .  They didn't have an estimate or invoice and said "since every mechanic had a hand in the coach it is too difficult to add up all the labor hours."  Meanwhile the slides were still inop, the shocks and airbags were not installed and none of my laundry list items were addressed.  But the paint was done and "looks great."  Two weeks later I get an email.  They still don't have an itemized invoice but are estimating 220 hours of labor and because they appreciate me letting them work on my coach, the new total is $22,000.

Right around this time I get a text message from Richard asking me how I like driving on my new King Shocks.....  I gave him the whole story.  Being an amazing and humbling person that Richard is, he offered to drive over to Nichols RV & Truck with me early January and evaluate the situation since it was relatively close to his house.  We spoke to Jim, the owner, David the manager (who is Jim's son) and a couple mechanics.  The coach was sitting in a far back dirt lot, no air, some shocks and airbags not installed, one hub cap missing and bedroom seals deflated.  There were a couple areas of paint that were missed and the front 3M/diamond shield was completely corroded - no issues when I dropped the coach off.  After we hooked up some shop air and could open the door, I didn't see any interior water damage (or anything missing) thankfully.  It was obvious that the mechanics have never worked on a Newell coach before and was using my coach as training.  Richard and I sat down with the manager and revised the list to ONLY install the shocks, airbags and fix the slides, and put a tarp over the rear of the coach to prevent water intrusion.  They said ok.

Fast forward to last thursday, SIX WEEKS later with no phone call, email or text.  I emailed for an update.  This is the response I get:


"still finding and working on the air system and leaks..... I believe the two rear axles have the shocks and air bags installed and the front air bags are being worked on as I am typing. Once they are complete we will be working on the slide room systems with the tech on the phone with valid, if necessary. I am hoping much sooner than later for completion but we were behind with the absences and I had one of the other mechanics never come back .... putting me further behind in completing the various jobs in house. These are not your concerns but with only one individual working on multiple jobs that are all involved it set the dominoes falling. Thank you for your patience and Hopefully this will come to an end soon. Sorry for the delay in communication. I will let you know as info becomes available to me."

Now that you have the back story, what would you do??  Do you continue to be patient after waiting for 5 months?  Do you tow it somewhere else assuming it could even be towed without airbags and/or shocks?  Do you get a lawyer involved and see if you have a case?  Personally, I don't know what to do.  My patience has officially run out.  I'm worried about the coach sitting for so long and potential water intrusion, generator problems, aquahot issues, other things that weren't a problem before and who knows what else.  And when, if ever, the coach is finally done, what do I do about this ridiculously high estimate?  At this rate I hope I can make it to the rally on May 4th!  

Any and all opinions, questions, concerns and suggestions/advice welcomed!

Thanks,
Vinnie
619 929 9000

[encantotom]

gurus all,

as the owner of the forum and newell owner myself, i can appreciate the difficulty of the situation vinnie is in.

i try to foster a positive upbeat online forum community. i do not want this thread to turn into a bashing session of the facility that is involved.

if you have constructive advise, please feel free to post it. i also encourage you to call vinnie direct as he kindly put his phone number in the post, or reply via PM or email to him directly.

if things get nasty, your posts will be moderated. vinnie has posted a real concern with no bashing, just facts as he see them.

i am sure he hopes the collective experience of our gurus could offer him some advise and counsel.

tom from guru central....

[Tony Van Helden]

It is difficult to see how you may get your coach out of your predicament short of an understanding between you and the shop owner to have it taken out his hands and to a competent repair facility and possible legal action.  Unfortunately, they have clearly demonstrated an inability to repair your coach.  He must surely be bonded for such situations that may give you some cover.  The owner needs to clearly know what legal action you are willing to take to get him to let go and both of you walk free and clear off a bad situation.

[LynnJeff]

Vinnie

How about talking to Excalibur coach in Sanford

About 27 miles from your coach

Reports are they are good and competent

They may be able to go over, grab your coach and possibly fix your problems?

[DK on the road]

I had one company work on my Coach shortly after I purchased it. They claimed to work on only "high end coaches, including Newells". It was a shop with about 30 Bays with a drive isle inside down the middle. Quite impressive. I walked thru the facility and saw extensive and difficult work taking place, so I left them with my Coach. I explained that it needed to be plugged in at all times or a series of Dominoes would fall. They acknowledged and said "No problem". The punch line is that they didn't plug it in. The main purpose of dropping the coach, along with a laundry list, was a charging system and battery going dead quickly, and figure out the dash air being discharged. My first clue was about a week later this shop couldn't open up the door. The coach had run out of air, the door would open and the crew was "locked out". I drove down and showed them what they did wrong. "OH OK, NO Problem" they said

They replaced the batteries with batteries I purchased, and charged the Air without doing a leak test. I was handed a bill for $2,500 after 6 weeks and no laundry list was done. The coach was running out front while we negotiated the bill. They agreed to $1,500 do to minimal actual work claimed completed. When I went to the coach, the air was not working after about a 1/2 hr. I went back inside and talked to the owner, upset, but professionally.

We agreed to $600 and I never went back. I still feel it was too much, but that was the cost of my education.

Shop Owners know...they know how skilled or unskilled the crew / staff is. I believe they would prefer to come to a uncomfortable agreement, but not outrageous one sided or the other. We all hate lawyers, both sides will lose more. I hate to say it, but I have a Stanford Law degree (but no JD after my name) paid for thru my mistakes made and arriving at reasonable solutions. I'll leave it at that.

I have had very few issues with Newell in Miami OK. I have had a few, but I believe they know my coach best and Trust but verify while they are working on it. They don't mind me leaning over the mechanic shoulder.

Vinnie, I hope you can work out a reasonable solution with the current shop. Remember "Reasonable" is always uncomfortable for both side I vote for Miami OK doing work your not comfortable doing.

Keep us posted on positive updates.

Get one of us retired guys to drive it out and back if needed.

[rheavn]

Maybe this will help you deal with the service manager...………………………………………………...    

[bikestuff]

Vinnie,

I am sorry you are having to go through this. There is no easy / simple / perfect solution to the current situation. Here are my thoughts for what they are worth.

Dave is correct on avoiding going the lawyer route. It ends up costing everyone money and lawyers (no offense intended) are not in it to win. They are in it to create billable hours. Threatening legal action will not have the desired affect I suspect.

One way out of this mess is to talk to the owner / manager at the place and tell him you are done with the shop and want your coach back. Figure out the minimum it will take to get the coach safely drivable. Negotiate on the cost of the work that has been accomplished successfully. If they screwed stuff up that does not affect driving, let it slide.

Once you have your coach back, you can then create a list of what needs to be done to get your coach livable again. I would think that the gurus will help in any way that they can to get you in a better place.

There is a chance that you will have to take it to Newell or another reputable dealer for some things. (Like slide work)....but I bet there is a lot you can do yourself with the help of this site.

One thought turns over and over in my head. It has to do with the biggest mistake I have made with my coach. If you find yourself dealing with a new vendor / maintenance facility....Ask them to do one simple thing and see how it goes. If they do the simple thing well, then you can ask them to do more and only when you really trust them do you give them the laundry list.

My experience when my differential blew up ended up costing me a lot of $$$$. I allowed them to do all sorts of stuff besides rebuilding the diff. Big mistake.

I do not mention this to pile on. You have been through a lot already...it is more for the next guy.

Bottom line. If I were in this situation. 1) Get the coach back in whatever condition you can. 2) Negotiate for the lowest price for work that has been completed. 3). Make a list of what is still broken and get input from the gurus about how to get that done.

I suspect the shop owner would like to get this coach off his books and a reasonable face-to-face meeting might be the way to do that.

Finally...Most of us hate confrontation. Yelling does not really get things done. However, if you make your request clear...”I want my coach back right now”. It might actually work.

Cheers,
Bill

[NotSoFast]

Vinnie,

Sorry to hear about your troubles. I doubt sitting down with the owner again at this point will do anything but delay a satisfactory conclusion.

From your discussion he's just not willing or able to perform (IMHO) been through similar situations in this country and others. At this time you're beginning to accrue damages and loss of use of your coach. Time you found out how much power you have over the situation so spending a few hundred bucks with a Florida lawyer versed in consumer law will spell out the range of movement you have. The statement from the owner that he could not say how many hours each worker spent on the coach is a very bad sign and an indication of an unprofessional company. If they can't say how many hours were worked, by whom, on what date, doing what action I would guess thats cause for not paying the bill.

My guess is the bast possible result for you at this time is getting the coach out of this shop with no more work performed on it as it appears none of it can be trusted. I would not try to have them make it road worthy, that I'm afraid might never happen. Get it onto a trailer and sent over to Newell and have it properly repaired.

When I purchased my coach 2 years ago it was apparent that getting the coach to the factory once or twice a year was just something I would need to do. No idea as to what option really exists other than dedicating all of your time to learning every system and figuring out how you're going to manage to do all of the work under the coach safely.

The issue of how and where to service equipment is widespread in almost all items we deal with today. Competent workers are very hard to find and ones with the ability to work on Newells is just not something you are going to fall into easily. My own feeling is should Newell ever close its doors my coach will immediately be put up for sale at at whatever price it would take to get rid of it. Just too many unknowns in its construction. I purchased the Newell for the service it can give me not the service I need to give it.

Good luck,

Mike

[folivier]

I just looked on Newell's website and Nichols RV & Truck is listed as a preferred service center. That being said I think I would talk with Newell and relate this experience with them. I'm sure they would want to know of your experiences and might want to review this place. And they may be willing to act as a go between. They could also recommend one of the other preferred service centers nearby.
Good luck.

[Junior Guru]

This is terrible. Sorry you’ve had to experience this. I’ve had two similar situations with my previous Newell, one of which was through Newell “preferred service center”. I realized quickly those have not been vetted very thoroughly or regularly.

There are good suggestions by previous posters

One thing I learned to do is always take pictures of my coach at the repair facility with the service guy when I drop it off. I actually do this at Newell too as they lost a tow bar I had left on and were adamant that it wasn’t on the coach when I dropped it off. I showed them the picture and reminded Jimmie he was there when I took the pics! They found my tow bar. Bottom line take pics even at Newell. All they can do is help to verify the condition of your coach when you leave it in their hands.

My experience with lawyers is different than others but I suppose it depends on your state laws, local case law etc. I would hire a lawyer at least to see if these are favorable to you in your state and what your options are. This could get worse before it gets better so best you know your options now.

Is it possible to fly a Newell mechanic or two to get it driveable? Newell has come to my coach before and the cost was well worth it to me. Maybe this is something you can negotiate with the repair shop to either pay for or reduce your bill by the cost of Newell visit and Newell gets to see their “preferred service provider” up front so maybe there is some negotiation on that (I doubt it though ). Seems like all 3 parties have something to gain from this so maybe try that angle. Either way I’m with others who say get it driveable and get it out of there!