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Failure of SilverLeaf Glass Dash - Printable Version

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Failure of SilverLeaf Glass Dash - NotSoFast - 08-27-2021

Dreaded glass dash failure... No Rant, just some thoughts

First, let me just say, I love my Newell and have lived everyday for the past 2+ years in it which I feel is no small accomplishment. Newell has supported me with repairs and emergency phone support sufficient to keep the systems up and running. Again, no small accomplishment.

A few days ago while preparing to leave an RV park in Kill Devil Hills NC the glass dash began flickering. At first it was only a slight wiggle in a small portion of screen but caught my eye as the screen had always been rock solid. Within a few minutes it degraded into a few colored vertical lines on one side of the screen and eventually all image was gone. Ugh... shades of the "Blue Screen of Death" to those old enough to remember the early days of DOS and Windows. 

It occurred to me that this might be temperature related as the sun had been coming through the windshield and the top of the dash was quite hot. Luckily I had installed a BlueFire iPad into the overhead and it gave me most of the important data I would want to see. After adding a speedometer app to a spare cellphone I had all but the TPMS info available and could begin my trip. Eventually, we turned away from the sun and the dash cooled and the screen came back on but rolled like an early black and white TV. Turning the Dash A/C on proved to be useful as the screen eventually settled down and became legible. 

After getting to my destination I called SilverLeaf to discuss the problem and see what they could do. Seems that the glass portion of the system is no longer available however they might be able to repair it, if the parts are still on the shelf. Otherwise I could buy the new screen and data collection components and expect a $5,000+ bill not including new bezel and mods to the dash itself.

Now I'm not complaining. My last bill at the factory was over $13,000 for the various repairs of similar importance, so I'm just happy a path is open where it either gets repaired or a new unit installed. I'm hoping its a power supply or other easily replaceable component. Time will tell.

When I purchased my 2008 coach about 3 years ago I went through the various systems and tried to analyze my future requirements regarding systems and parts failure. and how I would deal with replacement and/or refitting of a complex system. The 2 stand outs in the coach were the SilverLeaf system and the Spider electrical control system. The exercise proved to be valuable as the Spider system went through several control modules most of which were repaired at Newell but recently have been dealt with directly. I now carry 2 spare modules. The last 2 units returned to the factory were repaired as no new modules were available.

There was not much I could do regarding the SilverLeaf system. I did purchase a cheap windows laptop and the interface for downloading to and from the system but not much else to do but wait and hope all goes well. For now I will wait to hear back from the factory as to how to proceed. For the time being I will attempt to reroute one of the A/C ducts in the dash to cool the back of the SilverLeaf module and see how long it can delay its eventual demise. 

This brings me to a recent thought I had when reading about Newells new N1 system. Now I don't have a comment at this time regarding the N1 system specifically at this time. But I do have allot to say about the constant increase in complexity and lifetime costs related to technology that delivers only marginal increases in usability and functionality with massive hidden risks of failures that could put you on the side of the road thumbing a ride home. Think DEF pump failures which have killed many RV'rs summer plans this year. 

No manufacturer wanted to make the DEF system more complicated so perhaps it falls into another category more in line with the dictation of technical requirements by legislative bodies that have no ability to understand the costs, efforts or risks involved. But here's the gist of my thought. It is impossible to know the real reliability of a system until it has been proven over a long period of time in the field and that reliability can only be maintained so long as all components in the system remain unchanged once proven. Big upheavals in the worlds manufacturing base has had catastrophic results that most people are unaware of but cause many fine companies to be put out of business. The transfer of the production of almost all surface mount components to China was a disaster in almost all areas of electronics production. Who thought a small change in MTBF (mean time between failure) could mean so much. But when you have thousands of components in an electronic device you only need a small change in "component lifetime" to quickly take a device from 10 years MTBF to 10 weeks or possibly even 10 days. 

As an example, I had a brand new install of Raymarine navigation instruments put into a sailboat in 2014 which had so many failures that for 2 years we routed our port visits to only those harbors where a Raymarine repair facility was available. Turns out that time frame coincided with the move in surface mount manufacturing to China. Some of my instruments were replaced as many as 5 times. About 80% of all instruments were eventually replaced. The factory never admitted they had a problem but every repairman at every facility I visited told stories of every manufacturers struggles not just Raymarine. I would suggest that we are entering another phase of even greater upheaval in our manufacturing base and that we should be moving away from more complexity and towards simpler and more robust systems. I work hard keeping my Newell coach maintained and working at every level, but recognize that at some point systems will need replacing because the original systems are no longer supported. Owners of more basic coaches will have an easier time of it. With all of the focus in Washington on the elimination of gasoline and diesel power and the shear lunacy of our political leaders, complex systems will be the first to degrade to an unmanageable point. 

I'm happy I was able to find a Newell with a 2006 Cat C15 and so avoided another of the pitfalls in this industry relating to DEF and regeneration. Perhaps it's time for Newell to be thinking about building 5th wheels with commercial sized king pins so we can have them moved around by whatever commercial tractor is available in the coming years? I'm not feeling good about my long term prospects living the RV life.

Ok, maybe a little rant....

Best regards to all.

Mike

RE: Failure of SilverLeaf Glass Dash - 360 - 08-27-2021

Would be interested to see what your thoughts would be on purely doing a BlueFire dash?

RE: Failure of SilverLeaf Glass Dash - ian1959 - 08-27-2021

Hi there,
My glass dash has done this for the last 2 years!!! just as you are experiencing, lots of lines, sometimes just grey, sometimes a faint image of what should be displayed.
Do you have a reset button on your dash panel to the right of the screen? mine obtain comes back if I hold the reset button 30 seconds or so, a quick normal press does not bring it back.
I bought the last 8 Spider control units they had last year after sending mine back that were returned unrepairable.

~1218 2008 over in the UK

RE: Failure of SilverLeaf Glass Dash - encantotom - 08-27-2021

sorry you are having problems. and one that has no easy solution.

i have had a 90, 99 and 02 newell. seeing the complexity step up even on these older ones has made me think as well. going just a few years newer from my 02 up is another huge leap in system complexity. i cant even imagine the new ones.

i am able to figure out most things on my 02. thankfully

keep us posted on what you end up doing

tom

RE: Failure of SilverLeaf Glass Dash - NotSoFast - 08-27-2021

Hi 360,

I have spent a good deal of time working with the BlueFire system. I recently rebuilt my air intake system and needed a way to monitor the critical information without squinting at the dash which was never really bright enough during the day.
I like the BlueFire but it has a few problems. First, it locks up the iPad on a regular basis requiring I close the program and reopen it to get it working. I did the change over to the new app program on the iPad and I'm hoping it will make a difference. Also, I need to install the new firmware onto the Bluetooth module which also might make a difference. Considering I also have a read out for the critical engine data on the overhead the loss of the glass dash is not the end of the world. The Garman GPS shows speed and speed limit on the road, my overhead shows a reasonable amount of data in the "DRIVE" setting and I get what ever additional info i need from the iPad. If it goes out its not a big deal although I would never take the system to the next level until the system lock up problem is addressed. There are also a few data groups which I have not been able to get working yet such as the TPMS which did show on my dash. We also need to remember that the BlueFire system has a limitation as to how many times it can refresh the screen based on the number of instruments being used.

Regards,

Mike

RE: Failure of SilverLeaf Glass Dash - Richard - 08-27-2021

Mike,

Thank you for posting. As we have discussed before, the knowledge base for Newells beyond 2005 is scant compared to the previous vintage coaches. As time goes by, posts like this, and more importantly, fixes and alternates will become very important to the owners of newer coaches. A prime example of a similar situation was the AC control boards. There were several flaws. A progression of gurus developed better and better solutions to the problem because the boards no longer existed. Finally, after about five years, Newell contracted someone to build replacement boards, but for that six years, going without AC was not going to make your trip a good one.

This issue with both the Dash and the Spyder are way beyond my pay grade, but hopefully someone with a background in electronics can take the time to do root cause analysis on the failure. Perhaps it is Surface mount failure. Perhaps it is power transistor failure.

Thank you for starting a thread that will hopefully lead to solutions.

RE: Failure of SilverLeaf Glass Dash - 360 - 08-27-2021

Thanks for the assessment on Bluefire. I need to get mine hooked up. I’ll make sure to do the firmware update as well.

RE: Failure of SilverLeaf Glass Dash - Wanderman - 08-27-2021

I used my bluefire with custom cable for the entire trip back from Albuquerque. With an old Android tablet/notebook (Asus TF700T) Worked perfectly via bluetooth and really let me see all the engine/transmission parameters on the fly. Taught me a lot about the normal numerics of the driveline and what the analog gauges displayed. Some are pretty far off! Good to know everything is spot on.

RE: Failure of SilverLeaf Glass Dash - MrE - 08-28-2021

CAN bus - A Controller Area Network is a robust vehicle bus standard designed to allow microcontrollers and devices to communicate with each other's applications without a host computer. It is a message-based protocol, designed originally for multiplex electrical wiring within automobiles to save on copper, but it can also be used in many other contexts.

Too bad the Glass Dash is proprietary or else you would just be looking at a new monitor. The same problem with the Spider system, it's proprietary. My donor bus came with a Dynex multiplex system, also proprietary so I'm not able to utilize any of the components. What's sad, they all utilize CAN bus which is not proprietary.

Torque Pro is a $5 app for Android with an incredibly easy interface to build custom dashboards. It requires a BlueTooth OBDII adapter, $20 for a decent one, and an Android device. They have added a J1939 interface, the protocoll used on trucks, busses, and heavy equipment. I haven't verified this yet, but Richard will be showing up tomorrow, and if we can get a ODBII adapter figured out we'll be able to play with it.

Cars have been using CANbus since 1996, they now includes TPMS. They're now using CAN bus to control manufacturing. There are more and more manufactures making BCMs (body control modules). We should in the near future have non-proprietary applications for motorhomes to monitor what ever we want.

RE: Failure of SilverLeaf Glass Dash - NotSoFast - 08-29-2021

A closing note:

I opened up the top of the dashboard and viewed the area around the screen. I was thinking of placing a ventilation fan in the area above the brake pedal to move cool air through the interior of the dash but found an A/C duct positioned to the right of the screen and about level with it. The duct pulled off its vent easily and I wire tied it next to the screen pointing across the back plate. Running the fan showed very good coverage over the entirety of the back plate. As a bonus, the vent this duct connected to was always chilling my right knee so I won't miss it at all.

If I'm lucky it will extend the screens lifetime considerably. I'll let you know what happens after my next jaunt on Tuesday to Savanna and then on to Jupiter Florida on the 2nd.

Regards,

Mike