HWH Salon Slide cylinder replacement

HWH Salon Slide cylinder replacement - Printable Version

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HWH Salon Slide cylinder replacement - Richard - 06-13-2020

I hope this helps someone in the future.

If you want to replace the salon slide out cylinders for an HWH slide, first be aware there are two mountings. The first, and like mine, has access panels in the basement ceiling and front tire well on the passeger side. Inside you will find the end of the cylinder mounted to the frame via stud on the end of the cylinder, and two large nuts for adjustment. If you have a later model HWH slide out, the nuts on the driver side, and I have no idea about that one.

Here is the essence. HWH uses a different approach to hydraulics than most of us old tractor mechanics are used to. Both the extend and retract ends are pressurized during the extend stroke. It WILL NOT extend unless both ends are pressurized because there is a check valve apparatus at the rod end of the cylinder. It will retract by simply pressurizing the rod end of the cylinder. If you don't know this about HWH cylinders it causes a whole bunch of vocabulary expanding perjoratives.

That point is essential in understanding the post. The instructions for installing the cylinder from HWH say to install it extended. Plus you have to extend the room to access the attachment point for the cylinder rod. However, with the rod extended you would have to cut the coach into two pieces to get the cylinder out and put a new one in.

There may be other ways but here is how I did it.

I used a port a power hydraulic pump courtesy of HF. To extend the cylinder, cobble enough fittings to get from the 1/4 NPT of the port a power hose to the 1/8 flare fitting of the cylinder. Cobble together enough fittings and hose to tee the hydraulics and apply hyd pressure to both fittings. It seems counterintuitive, but when you apply hyd pressure the cylinder will extend.

To get the cylinder to retract, rework the hoses to only apply pressure to the rod end. Obviously hyd fluid will come out of the other end when you move the cylinder.

As you extend the cylinder, you may have to refill the reservoir on the pump several times. When I had all the fitting arrangements to suit me, I extended and retracted the cylinder a few times will holding it vertical in both directions to bleed any entrained air. I was careful when installing to minimize the leakage while reattaching to the HWH system.

You wil first need to retract the old cylinder to get it out of the coach. Then you will need to extend the new cylinder after you put it in place. Only after extension can you line up the attachment points of the cylinder with the coach and slide.

My fear was that with a cylinder at each end of the room, that it would cock the room until the hydraulic system cycled a few times and bled out any entrained air in the replaced cylinder. With the careful bleeding on the bench prior to install, the room did not cock when moving on the first trys.

There may be a simpler way, now that I have slept on it. It may have been possible to open the access above the tire, disconnect those lines and cap them. I may have been able to simply press the extend and retract buttons to operate the cylinder I was working on. I do know that I tried to use the HWH pump and system to move the cylinder when it was mechanically disconnected on both ends and it started to move the opposite end of the room. I decided not to pursure that approach very far.

The post begs the question, why did you change the cylinder? It was not appreciably leaking. However, the room was cocking a bit going in and out. Cocking enough that the outer skin of the slide was catching on the coach skin. I knew that was going to create a big problem eventually. There is an adjustment in the center of the slide, up in the ceiling to account for cocking, or racking. However, that did not address my problem. My specific problem was the rear would start out late going out, but also start out late coming in. Meaning the room was racking in both directions. The only thing I could figure that would account for that was that the seal inside the cylinder was leaking by causing the cylinder to react slower than it's counterpart.

All seems to be good on the test trys.

RE: HWH Salon Slide cylinder replacement - Latitude 28 - 01-15-2022

Quoted text "There may be a simpler way, now that I have slept on it. It may have been possible to open the access above the tire, disconnect those lines and cap them. I may have been able to simply press the extend and retract buttons to operate the cylinder I was working on. I do know that I tried to use the HWH pump and system to move the cylinder when it was mechanically disconnected on both ends and it started to move the opposite end of the room. I decided not to pursure that approach very far."

NOTE: Use caution when working with hydraulics and shut off the air supply to the salon slide seal once flattened.

I had the front salon (rear actuator) leaking. I tried this approach Richard described above, to actuator the cylinder facilitating the removal with a minor deviation. With the room fully extended i.e. floor raised and the slide pins engaged using the normal HWH hydraulic system. I selected the retract sequence.....once the floor dropped and the room moved inward a couple of inches I stopped the slide sequence. I figured if the room was away from the extend switches I would eliminate hydraulic sequence issues upon reinstalling the actuator.

Capping off the front actuator and removing the outboard rod end bolt of the rear actuator i completed the retracting of the aft actuator using the HWH system as if retracting the slide, only difference the slide does not move. Removed the actuator from the coach. Dis-assembled the actuator and replace the seals thank you Richard! Once the collapsed actuator (void of any fluid) was connected to the coach hydraulically & mechanically on the passenger side of the actuator (I left some space between the large adjustment nuts, passenger side) to facilitate moving the rod end in order to install the driver side rod end bolt. Very carefully extend the aft cylinder with the HWH hydraulic system till the driver side rod end bumps the slide....release extend switch. Once the driver side rod end bolt was installed tighten the large adjustment nuts on the passenger side.....final adjustment comes later once all the air is out of the system (self bleeding).

With the front and rear actuators mechanically/hydraulically hooked up continuing the retraction to the fully stowed an locked position. Had no issues with the room cocking upon retraction. Extended the room to the fully extended position again with no issues. Did this a couple of times (ten minute rest between cycles) to eliminate any air. Happy to report the rear actuator is no longer leaking!

RE: HWH Salon Slide cylinder replacement - Richard - 01-16-2022

Glad to hear it's fixed.

A point to make about the HWH cylinders. Right now HWH is WAAAAAAY behind, so if you try to buy a cylinder or parts from them you could wait weeks just to put in the order and many months to get the cylinder. I am not knocking HWH, just saying if you find yourself in a bind.

Those cylinders are rebuildable. You can take it to a hyd shop, or source the seals yourself.

For example a new slide cylinder is approximately $700, I think there is less than $5 dollars in seals that are replaced.

RE: HWH Salon Slide cylinder replacement - encantotom - 01-16-2022

i just rebuilt 3 large cylinders on my case 480 tractor. 30 bucks in seals on each one. and a 75 dollar gland tool.

not a big deal and i am sure these cylinders are not as big as the ones on my tractor.

did the cylinder have a part number on it? or like richard said, taking it to a hydraulic repair shop they will have the seals i bet.

tom

RE: HWH Salon Slide cylinder replacement - Latitude 28 - 01-17-2022

Here are some images of the removed actuator. One image has the part number tag.

I would say the hydraulic repair shop would be in order not only for the seals but to remove the rectangle end. One image depicts the clamping apparatus I had to build up in order to remove the rectangle block. It really is torqued down tight, to the point that until I wrapped it in a rubber sleeve and clamped it to the table in opposing V blocks was I able to remove it.

RE: HWH Salon Slide cylinder replacement - RussWhite - 01-17-2022

Well I am patiently awaiting the guru post for how to DIY the front salon cylinder! I suspect it will start out with something like "carefully cutout an access hole in the side of the coach"! Yeah, I am just joking, but darn if I see a way to do it. Russ PS - I went the route of purchase from HWH about a year ago for the rear one. It did take longer than promised, but happily no more fluid all over the stuff in the bays.

RE: HWH Salon Slide cylinder replacement - ACR - 06-07-2023

This is Stephen Allen also known as ACR junior Guru. Does anyone Know the McMaster-carr part num for seals to rebuild the salon slide rams on coach 502 ?

RE: HWH Salon Slide cylinder replacement - Gnawrocki1 - 06-07-2023

(06-07-2023, 08:35 AM)ACR Wrote: This is Stephen Allen also known as ACR junior Guru. Does anyone Know the McMaster-carr part num for seals to rebuild the salon slide rams on coach 502 ?

I did not know how to paste a link to my post about my slide cylinder woes on coach 500, but here is what was in there. I can only imagine you have the same cylinders

Slide cylinders is HWH AP15845 but same as HWH AP21812
The O'ring store UL125-0.875-125 High Performance Loaded U-Cup
The O'ring store AN-07-SH 7/8" Rod Wiper Seal (This was the lowest price for MS28776-7 I could find by far)
The O'ring store AS568-916 Buna-N 70 Duro (I used a 3mm x 30mm seal sized off less than 2% since I did not know there were special oring sizes for "bosses")
McMaster Carr Oring 9452K34

RE: HWH Salon Slide cylinder replacement - Richard - 06-07-2023

https://newellgurus.com/showthread.php?tid=7230&highlight=Slide+AND+cylinder

Thanks Glen !!!!

RE: HWH Salon Slide cylinder replacement - Latitude 28 - 10-16-2023

Like Russ stated above, i dreaded the day if my salon's front cylinder ever started leaking.....well it developed a leak. I read, with great interest, Glen's write-up about his cylinder rebuild/replacement and removed it from the coach. I had made up an opposing V-blocks when I rebuilt the aft salon cylinder last year https://newellgurus.com/showthread.php?tid=5527&highlight=hwh+AND+cylinder, post #5 to hold the cylinder. Used them again, wrapping the cylinder with some rubber backed carpet and with a big crescent wrench to remove the square block on the end....worked great.