Air operating systems - Printable Version
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+--- Thread: Air operating systems (/showthread.php?tid=1699)
RE: Air operating systems - Shamu406 - 12-01-2015
(12-01-2015, 03:58 PM)Fulltiming Wrote: John, I would suggest that as soon as you can safely get under the coach or get someone else under it, you change the petcock drain valves out to the plug cord valves. That way you can drain the moisture out of the tanks on a routine basis without worry about crawling under the coach. I just had to replace both of the two brake tanks you found behind the front axle. They had rusted through from the inside and were starting to leak badly. They are hard to find so it is a good idea to keep water out to the maximum extent possible. I ran the pull cables through an opening in the back of the first compartment behind the wheels on the passenger side so I can easily access them.Michael,
Where to get the plug cord valves? Did you replace the rear tanks as well?
Thanks!
RE: Air operating systems - Fulltiming - 12-01-2015
Ryder Fleet Products for the cable pull air tank drain valves. I have the 60" pull cord/cable valves.
I have not replaced the rear tank. So far no major leaks back there. Trying to find tanks that are similar is a challenge. The closest one that we could find was made for a Peterbuilt truck. VERY EXPENSIVE!
RE: Air operating systems - rheavn - 12-02-2015
John,
Sorry about the name mix up!
RE: Air operating systems - rheavn - 12-02-2015
John,
You asked, " Do both pumps work the same lines? Or do they have separate duties?"
Your air system has three air pumps. The 12V, the 110V and the engine compressor.
The 12V pump provides air to the 3 gallon air tank in the right rear wheel well, the air pocket doors, the air toilet(s), dump valves and slide seals (if you have slides).
The 110V air pump provides air to every air tank and air system on the coach including all items that are provided air by the 12V air pump. The 110V air pump's air does not go through the coach's Wabco air dryer & desiccant filter. For this reason the 110V air pump usually has an air dryer mounted close to the pump.
The engine compressor provides air through the Wabco air dryer & desiccant filter to all air tanks and systems within the coach including all items that the 12V air pump provides.
Hope this helps..............................
RE: Air operating systems - Shamu406 - 12-02-2015
(12-02-2015, 05:09 PM)rheavn Wrote: John,Steve,
You asked, " Do both pumps work the same lines? Or do they have separate duties?"
Your air system has three air pumps. The 12V, the 110V and the engine compressor.
The 12V pump provides air to the 3 gallon air tank in the right rear wheel well, the air pocket doors, the air toilet(s), dump valves and slide seals (if you have slides).
The 110V air pump provides air to every air tank and air system on the coach including all items that are provided air by the 12V air pump. The 110V air pump's air does not go through the coach's Wabco air dryer & desiccant filter. For this reason the 110V air pump usually has an air dryer mounted close to the pump.
The engine compressor provides air through the Wabco air dryer & desiccant filter to all air tanks and systems within the coach including all items that the 12V air pump provides.
Hope this helps..............................
Thanks for the info. But I am confused because Jimmy at Newell said the 110 & 12v DC pumps are separate. I don't think they are because my toilet flapper wont close for some reason when the 110 is in effect, and the midship air door is trying to work, but is not, and that just happened last week. Is there some type of valve or solenoid that would have an effect like this?
Was too busy today to crib it up, and drain tanks, but hopefully by the weekend. Hope that is the culprit.
RE: Air operating systems - rheavn - 12-03-2015
John,
You spoke with Jimmy at Newell. Did he describe the 12V & 110V systems as being totally separate? I only use my 12V air pump when I have my coach in storage. The rest of the time I rely on the 110V air pump and engine compressor to keep the coach aired up which includes the systems supplied air by the 12V air pump. If Jimmy meant that the 12V system is separate going from the 12V air pump I would agree. But the air going from the engine compressor and the 110V air pump pressurizes the ENTIRE coach air system. The 12V air pump is too small & would burn up before it could pressurize the entire coach.
As a test I went out and drained all the air from my coach. I turned on the 12V air pump and the 3 gallon air tank in the right wheel well filled and the regulator in the AquaHot bay went to 60 psi. I checked the brake system & supply air gauges and they were still at zero.
I then redrained the system & turned on the 110V air compressor, but left the 12V air pump off. First the brake system pressurized. Then the auxillary air system AND the items supplied air by the 12V air pump pressurized. Now how can this be. There are check valve(s) that allow the 12V air pump to just pressurize a few items, but allow the engine compressor and 110V air compressor to pressurize all coach systems.
I hope this experiment helps you & others understand the air system...........................
You wrote, "Was too busy today to crib it up, and drain tanks, but hopefully by the weekend. Hope that is the culprit."
Water is just the first problem. Once you get water in your tanks, rust begins forming. Now small particles of metal are being pushed through your system. Both water and the rust play havoc on the air valving. As Michael said he actually had an air tank rust out. I had a leaking tank too when I first got my coach and had to replace it. You may have to do more than just drain your air tanks. It's just that draining your 10 air tanks and changing your desiccant filter is the place to start.
RE: Air operating systems - Shamu406 - 12-03-2015
(12-03-2015, 07:47 AM)rheavn Wrote: John,Steve,
You spoke with Jimmy at Newell. Did he describe the 12V & 110V systems as being totally separate? I only use my 12V air pump when I have my coach in storage. The rest of the time I rely on the 110V air pump and engine compressor to keep the coach aired up which includes the systems supplied air by the 12V air pump. If Jimmy meant that the 12V system is separate going from the 12V air pump I would agree. But the air going from the engine compressor and the 110V air pump pressurizes the ENTIRE coach air system. The 12V air pump is too small & would burn up before it could pressurize the entire coach.
As a test I went out and drained all the air from my coach. I turned on the 12V air pump and the 3 gallon air tank in the right wheel well filled and the regulator in the AquaHot bay went to 60 psi. I checked the brake system & supply air gauges and they were still at zero.
I then redrained the system & turned on the 110V air compressor, but left the 12V air pump off. First the brake system pressurized. Then the auxillary air system AND the items supplied air by the 12V air pump pressurized. Now how can this be. There are check valve(s) that allow the 12V air pump to just pressurize a few items, but allow the engine compressor and 110V air compressor to pressurize all coach systems.
I hope this experiment helps you & others understand the air system...........................
You wrote, "Was too busy today to crib it up, and drain tanks, but hopefully by the weekend. Hope that is the culprit."
Water is just the first problem. Once you get water in your tanks, rust begins forming. Now small particles of metal are being pushed through your system. Both water and the rust play havoc on the air valving. As Michael said he actually had an air tank rust out. I had a leaking tank too when I first got my coach and had to replace it. You may have to do more than just drain your air tanks. It's just that draining your 10 air tanks and changing your desiccant filter is the place to start.
Thank you so much for the test and the info, it is very much appreciated. Although I have owned this coach for a year and a half, I am obviously still a newbie in many ways. So thank you for your patience with all my questions and issues.
I took Jimmy's explanation as it being separate, but evidently with your test, it is not.
Could water be the problem stopping my air door from not working? Is there a check valve near there to check out?
I ordered a rebuild kit (29.98) for the left side dump tank and one for the Palm valve (39.98) for the Generator tray. Will get them in a week, so I'm trying to get some things together to do under the coach all at one time, like lubrication, engine oil change, and draining the tanks. Should I install drains cocks with a pull cord? Is 34.42 each a good price for them? If so, how many should be installed, and on which tanks?
Can you also tell me the lubrication points and what type of grease? Is all this stuff in the manuals?
Sorry for so many questions, please let me know if you don't mind.
Thanks!
John
RE: Air operating systems - encantotom - 12-03-2015
i have pull drains on 3 of my tanks. i paid about 7 or 8 bucks apiece for them at ryderfleetproducts.com
tom
RE: Air operating systems - rheavn - 12-04-2015
John,
Six years ago I was where you are and people were patient with me. No stupid questions.
You wrote, "Could water be the problem stopping my air door from not working? Is there a check valve near there to check out?"
I've never worked on my air doors, so I'm as inexperienced as you. If I was having the problem, my first step would be to verify that the cylinder is receiving proper air pressure. If it is, then I would look at the cylinder itself. If it isn't, then I would work backwards toward the air pump. I would not expect to find a check valve in the pocket door system.
"Should I install drains cocks with a pull cord?"
Strictly personal choice. I do not have them. I am under my coach regularly anyway.
"Can you also tell me the lubrication points and what type of grease? Is all this stuff in the manuals?"
The lubrication points are located in this thread-posting #2.
http://newellgurus.com/showthread.php?tid=979
Yes some of this info is in the Newell owner's manual, including the type of grease. Here is what I use:
http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/mystik-jt-6-hi-temp-grease-14-oz
RE: Air operating systems - qcj - 12-04-2015
You can buy the drain cocks at NAPA. If your tanks don't already have them take a plug in with you. My large round tanks already had drain cocks but all the cross member tanks had plugs. The pipe size was 1/2" but NAPA call them 3/8" because that is the size of the drain hole. I hope this helps.