Checking ride height and questions - Printable Version
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RE: Checking ride height and questions - hbens - 09-14-2024
(09-13-2024, 02:06 PM)Richard Wrote: On the front HCV, it is incredibly sensitive to adjustment because the control arm is mounted on the sway bar and not the actual suspension. There is a huge multiplication factor. A 1/2 inch adjustment on the front may actually result in a 2 inch difference in ride height.
Always measure ride height after lowering the coach and allowing it to come back up in travel mode. Any other method, such as having the coach all the way up and allowing it to settle in TRAVEL will product nonrepeatable measurements due to the hysteresis in the HCV.
I remember you telling me this or reading one of your posts. A very important concept to remember. I was going to add just the sensitivity part.
Thanks for adding this Richard.
RE: Checking ride height and questions - pairodice - 09-14-2024
Thank you Richard! I will try those things this morning and report back. When I tried it the first time yesterday all went well (as I reported) but then when we test drove it all went South… btw, Brandon at Southern Tire was VERY nice and let me use his alignment bay pit most of the day yesterday for free and isn’t familiar with IFS. Good to know I don’t have to worry about a king pin at least :-) That’s why we have you guys …
What if the coach does not come back up to LEVEL from dumped please? The pass side does not raise now :-(
Does the engine need to be running for any of this? I had to move the coach a little and then reset the brake/Neutral yesterday. I never dump the coach so I figured maybe it just needed exercise… I’ll find the diagrams for the six pack and check them in a few minutes after I perform your suggestions.
Btw, it does take 5 minutes or more for the driver rear to fully dump for some reason…
RE: Checking ride height and questions - pairodice - 09-14-2024
Richard’s post: Let’s start here. Lower the coach all the way down using the LEVEL mode. With the engine running, put it in travel and wait five minutes. Shut off the coach and now measure.
TESTING:
1) I hit the LEVEL function button after being in the TRAVEL mode… and waited 5 minutes for the magic to happen… the leveling seems to work perfectly from travel mode! I think my test was faulty - it seems the driver side did not really move up/down when I went into LEVEL mode - this means the passenger side moved only… :-(
2) Richard didn’t ask this but I wanted to test while I’m here at the RV: I DUMPED the coach and noticed that the driver side did not move. I then tried to manually raise/lower the driver side to no avail. I tried lowering the front and only the driver front lowered - only the passenger side is moving up/down the driver side is not moving - it’s like it’s locked in place…
I did check the fuses in the HWH box in the front driver side bay and the fuses all look good - I will check that I am getting voltage to the #59 fuse
RE: Checking ride height and questions - encantotom - 09-14-2024
adrian,
i am not following you very well. let me try and say in my words what richard was saying. your words about dumping it down and the driver side didnt move and that you hit the level button after being in travel and leveling seemed to work doest make sense to me.
then you asked if the engine needs to running. to raise the airbags at all takes a minimum of 100psi. minimum and at 100 it will be slow. to dump air, the engine doesnt need to be running.
so.....start by lowering the coach all the way down by pushing the level button once and then on mine i use the all down button that lets air out on all 4 corners. remember there are alot more airbags in the back than the 2 in the front. the back will also take alot longer to go up than the fronts.
once it is all the way down, you want to have the engine running in fast idle and go into travel mode. make sure you are in travel mode. then like richard says, wait a min of 5 min to let it raise up to ride height. remember that is 12 inches measured. or about. if the front is there and the back is not i would wait a few more minutes and check again.
if that is good, then all is good.
you said the drivers side didnt dump. it is simple enough to test the valves on the six packs to see if they are energized. while you are dumping, put a washer or tip of screwdriver or anything metalic on the end of the stem where the nut is on the valve. if it is magnetized then the valve is energized. if not, then check the voltage at the packard plug for the valve.
later
tom
RE: Checking ride height and questions - Richard - 09-14-2024
I am not sure how you did what you did from what I wrote.
Put the coach in LEVEL mode.
Push the all down button and completely lower the coach.
Crank the engine.
Put the coach in TRAVEL mode.
Wait five minutes.
Turn the coach off.
Measure.
RE: Checking ride height and questions - pairodice - 09-14-2024
From Richard:
- Put the coach in LEVEL mode. Done
- Push the all down button and completely lower the coach. I let it sit in DUMP mode (all down) for about 5 minutes;
- Crank the engine. Done
- Put the coach in TRAVEL mode DONE
- Wait five minutes. Done
- Turn the coach off. Done
- measure at 1” square tubing: pass rear:8” , driver rear:9” , pass front:10” , driver front: 11”
On a side note: I fixed the issue with the coach not dumping on the driver side by cleaning the Packard connectors(name???) to the rear 6-pack and I may have had one switched by accident - I need a 6-pack diagram for the correct wiring and will probably have to have my wife help me by holding each of the HWH panels down. But NOW the driver side dumps correctly :-)
RE: Checking ride height and questions - Richard - 09-14-2024
Thank you, SUPER!
You don’t appear to have a side to side imbalance. That is controlled by the rear HCV’s
What your trial told us is:
Your are reasonably balanced side to side with the rear HCVs.
At least the lower and travel solenoids are functioning properly.
You don’t have a major leak at the airbags.
What we don’t know:
Was there enough air pressure and time to raise the coach completely. It takes 120 psi on the supply side to raise the rear. I said wait five minutes, but I don’t know how fast your engine air compressor builds air or how empty the air bags were when the coach was lowered.
Have the HCV’s been adjusted recently. The front one was touched. We don’t know about the rear ones.
The front and rear appear low. The first question this begs is there enough air pressure to raise the coach. The second question is are the HCVs adjusted correctly.
BEFORE even thinking about HCVs, we must ensure the coach has proper air pressure and time to raise the coach fully.
Crank coach, allow air pressure to build to 120 on the supply gauge, and wait another five minutes before measuring. If it doesn’t raise, go to the next step.
Just for a sanity check, with the key on, HWH in travel mode, take a steel washer and confirm the four travel solenoids are energized.
You can do the same with the raise and dump at your convenience. A wiring diagram will not help you since the wires are not marked.
ONLY after confirming sufficient air pressure and time and travel solenoids open, should you conclude the HCVs are out of adjustment.
Not that you don’t have enough to think about right now, but keep something in mind. The toe in changes dramatically as the ride height changes. The point being that as you fiddle with the front ride height, any front end alignment you had done goes out the window. . If the coach is above the ride height the alignment was setup, it will be toed out, and drive awful. It will dart from side to side. If it is lower than ride height at which the alignment was done, it will be toed in more. It may wear the tires a bit, but it will drive OK. MY POINT. If you adjust the front ride height, it is better to err on the low side.
RE: Checking ride height and questions - pairodice - 09-14-2024
Hi Richard, thank you for your patience! I know what I say is confusing… :-( I’m a software engineer, not a REAL engineer like yourself :-)
- “ Have the HCV’s been adjusted recently” Yes, I adjusted the driver rear recently because it was riding too high I thought
- The coach was in LEVEL mode earlier and seemed to be holding the level even without the key being in the ON position. I had to go home and take a shower after being out in the heat all day …
- “Crank coach, allow air pressure to build to 120 on the supply gauge, and wait another five minutes before measuring” I needed clarification on where to start please: not sure if I’m supposed to measure it in LEVEL mode or in TRAVEL mode so I will start with LEVEL mode: I cranked the coach and put the coach in LEVEL mode and checked the HWH valves - only the rear/bottom 6-pack was activated - maybe I took too long to check it…
- I DUMPED the coach to start from scratch… and waited about 5 minutes to be sure it was completely dumped
During the DUMP mode I checked the solenoids and the wire is labeled ‘LOWER’ and the solenoid is the middle TOP row; the coach fully DUMPed perfectly… now on to raising it to TRAVEL mode (I am assuming this is what you meant since we will be measuring???)
RE: Checking ride height and questions - pairodice - 09-14-2024
Raising the coach (TRAVEL MODE):
After being dumped (correctly) I cranked the engine and it automagically went into TRAVEL mode. The air pressure was *near* 120 (see picture) before entering TRAVEL mode.
Solenoid magnetized - I only see two solenoids magnetized 1) closest to firewall bottom 2) middle bottom (see picture)
Measuring the height of the coach (same as previous)
Pass Rear 8”
Driver Rear 9”
Pass Front 10”
Driver Front 11”
Just for grins I measured after DUMPing one more time:
Pass Rear 7.5”
Driver Rear 7.5”
Pass Front 8.5”
Driver Front 9.5”
My wires are all labeled except for one (and one is on the solenoid side for some reason) - see picture…
The unmarked wire goes up to the middle top solenoid and the wire attached reads ‘LOWER’ - see picture…
RE: Checking ride height and questions - pairodice - 09-14-2024
I decided to show the wiring for the rear 6-pack as is currently:
Front = solenoid Closest to firewall
Middle = solenoid in the Middle
Rear = solenoid furthest from firewall
Top and Bottom = well, top and bottom of the manifold
Top/Front = unmarked
Top/Middle = rr lower from wire loom/LOWER from solenoid
Top/Rear = I think is says LR RAISE from wire loom
Bottom/Front = TRAVEL from wire loom
Bottom/Middle = TRAVEL from wire loom
Bottom/Rear = RAISE from wire loom