Back up cameras - Printable Version
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RE: Back up cameras - SouthernDevGirl - 10-11-2022
Working in tech and being intimately familiar with the technology, I would not say the camera article is definitive.
It's not that it's inaccurate; rather, it appears to be the best attempt by someone researching for their own purposes who based their information on things they read, often in marketing literature, without understanding the "how and why" fundamentals.
They also don't go into the multi-camera systems that you're interested in.
The unfortunate reality is that none of them are perfect. If you prefer to spend substantially more, the commercial fleet systems are the highest quality; however, you'll typically do better by wiring it once and simply upgrading systems every few years. You'll have a better / more up-to-date product and in the end it will ultimately cost less.
I'm not (yet) familiar with running wire in Newells; however, as with any RV, you can always run the length of the coach from the rooftop. Of course your experience re:Wireless is spot-on; avoid them, no matter how much you prefer the convenience. The money to have someone else install for you will be a far better investment than compromising with wireless to avoid the installation hassle (in my humble opinion).
RE: Back up cameras - Richard - 10-11-2022
Jack,
Not saying you should do what I did, but this thread may get you thinking about the possibilities,
https://newellgurus.com/showthread.php?tid=6638
RE: Back up cameras - Jack Houpe - 10-14-2022
I've decided to use a reolink IP POE camera system so I can use it two ways, one for observation of traffic and the other security of the coach. They have a camera which incorporates 2 cameras in one to give you a full 180 degrees for the rear then one on each mirror pointing to the rear and one pointing forward for dash cam use. The front and mirror cameras will be pretty simple to install but the rear might be a bit more work.
RE: Back up cameras - kaptain - 10-14-2022
(10-14-2022, 05:24 AM)Jack Houpe Wrote: I've decided to use a reolink IP POE camera system so I can use it two ways, one for observation of traffic and the other security of the coach. They have a camera which incorporates 2 cameras in one to give you a full 180 degrees for the rear then one on each mirror pointing to the rear and one pointing forward for dash cam use. The front and mirror cameras will be pretty simple to install but the rear might be a bit more work.
Is this one you are getting? https://www.amazon.com/B0B2P9RL53/
It doesn't look like it's designed for vehicle applications.
The only good part is the dual lens and 180 wide angles. But many vehicle-purposed cameras offer wide-angle views, typically 130-170 already. I think that's sufficient.
I think using Reolink dual lens has below potential drawbacks:
1) PEO uses a 48V power source, an industrial standard for telephone equipment, etc. This means you need to create a new power source for the camera, from your existing 12v or 110v, or use a hub/switch with a POE socket/output.
2) Lacking features such as DVR, logging GPS data, etc. These are often standard features of vehicle-purposed cameras.
3) Dual lens while it's great that it provides a wide-angle view, several review pictures posted on amazon do not show good video quality combining/merging images from 2 separate lenses onto a single screen.
The technology is either too new, or the implementation of it is not yet perfect.
4) Functions such as motion detection (Human/Vehicle/Pet identification) likely require the purchase of separate paid subscriptions.
5) Certain other functions you will probably not use or find difficult to use on an RV (such as 2-way audio). These features are resource overhead for a camera-based processor, it consumes camera resources. Even if you ever use it, you will find people the person you intend to talk to can't hear you due to road, engine noise, and small thus low volume speaker.
But I could be wrong. Please correct me if so, because I never used a camera designed for our door stationary application on a vehicle made by Reolink.
And if you find it works for you, then that's great.
RE: Back up cameras - Jack Houpe - 10-14-2022
Yes Poe does require 48 volts but it does have a adapter that plugs into 110 so a common wall outlet will work. We leave the inverter on while traveling and of course while plugged into shore power it won't be a problem. I doubt the camera system but have a problem in motion as being stationary it picks up motion from passerby's. It has an NVR rather than a DVR, but both are pretty much the same. One of the network video recorder the other one is a digital video recorder. We have starlink so we'll be able to see what's going on inside and outside as it's 8 channel will be able to keep an eye on the pups while we're out and about. I have a similar system here at my home.
RE: Back up cameras - SouthernDevGirl - 10-14-2022
@Jack Houpe - As someone that works in tech and has done plenty of work on DVR apps (primarily ML/AI), I have familiarity with just about every non-mobile system you can buy on Amazon. Reolink are some of the most problematic, lowest quality units and they are notorious for buying fake reviews on Amazon and/or bribing people with bad reviews (eg - they'll refund the money to remove the bad review).
If you're just using this as a proof-of-concept and you don't mind replacing them in a year (a major benefit to PoE/IP-based cameras), then I'll address the 48v issue mentioned above:
The PoE is a benefit for sure and the 48v is also a benefit because running 12v over the tiny 24 gauge wire in Cat5/6, would be an issue over long lengths.
The 48v PoE in this instance is the *passive* variety (as with 95% of all PoE security cameras). In other words, just buy a DC-boost (vs buck) power supply to convert your 12v to 48v. The amperage is relatively low and you should be able to get by with a single DC-boost power supply. Wiring that to a pass-through PoE splitter is easy and very inexpensive, also available on Amazon.
This makes much more sense than going from AC-to-DC with the 110-to-48v POE because the inverter isn't required.
I would still recommend going with an alternative, higher-quality system; however, you can't go wrong because you'll always be able to upgrade/replace the REOlink easily because the wiring can be reused by any alternative PoE/IP based camera system.
RE: Back up cameras - Jack Houpe - 10-14-2022
Thanks Southerndevgirl, I am a certified electronic technician and have a second class FCC license and worked on aircraft equipment in my past life. Understand digital but it was boring love analog so I understand completely the equipment and a functionality of it. Yes a step up DC to DC converter would be useful but while underway we will be using the inverter which supplies AC and when plugged into shore power it's taken care of. This is a simple system and I'm not looking for anything but being able to view a broader spectrum than what I have now with a little black and white camera. I have the same system in my house and it functions well for our needs.
RE: Back up cameras - SouthernDevGirl - 10-14-2022
Jack, to your comment:
> This is a simple system and I'm not looking for anything but being able to view a broader spectrum than what I have now
To be clear, I'm definitely not suggesting Reolink's are limited in functionality (in fact, just the opposite, they have a great "app" if you prefer to use the vendor-provided tools). I'm also not speaking from an academic perspective, but rather _first-hand_ experience with the brand (albeit dated).
If you're familiar with Reolink, you realize they have drastic sales/promo-codes they occasionally run. For this reason (and their popularity on Amazon), we've purchased one in the past (a bench-test system for an app we developed; long story). Up until almost three years back, I had three different friends/colleagues that have installed them in their homes.
Our bench-test system included four cameras that worked fine, initially. I changed the IP of one camera and the camera disappeared (no response to any IP-scan on every known private subnet, no polling of TFTP upon boot to reset/update the BIOS, etc). I returned the unit and didn't bother again.
Of the three systems purchased by others where I have first-hand experience, every one of those has gone bad between 11-26 months (roughly, the sweet spot appears to be just under two years).
> I have the same system in my house and it functions well for our needs.
Are you referring to the Reolink system? You have a Reolink-branded system in your house?
If so, could I ask for some added details so that the next person that mentions them, I'll add your experience to the list, to provide a more fair comparison? For example, how many cameras you run outdoor -vs- indoor and whether you run one of their NVR's? How long you've been running this system and whether 100% of your cameras and Reolink NVR have been working without replacement?
I've been recommending _against_ them for about 3 years; perhaps in the last three years things have improved. I just did a quick Google search to confirm and it does appear they are now in a different space and self-manufacturing.
With that said, they no longer have the cost advantage over the two largest/more reliable companies (Hikvision and Dahua are the OEM's for about 35+ different security camera brands); for that reason, there doesn't seem to be any significant benefit over going with the more reliable options of Dahua or Hikvision.
> Yes a step up DC to DC converter would be useful but while underway we will be using the inverter
Understood. To clarify -- I wasn't thinking about while you're present/actively using the coach. I was suggesting the more efficient DC-DC boost (particularly the efficiency of modern single-inductor units) would be the better route because your inverter could remain off while you were outside of the coach.
In addition, remember the large inverters we use in these coaches tend to drop substantially in efficiency at low ratios of current (eg below 5 to 10% of max current).
If you are not interested in video monitoring while the coach (or inverter) is not being used, in my humble opinion, the DC-native circuit remains the best option (and to your point, I believe it's "easier") because you eliminate the power-brick and you have a (a) cleaner; (b) higher power output with © greater efficiency/less heat in the DC->AC->DC (nets 12% less efficient albeit moot if never running while away /or/ on battery).
You'll already be using a passive-PoE split, so it's just easier to throw a DC-DC boost in-line with that and go direct to the DC side.
None the less, if I misunderstood your usage, that's my mistake and I apologize.
...Final clarification...
I'd just like to clarify that I absolutely agree with running an IP-based -vs- analog system, by large margin.
If you're okay with the tradeoffs of a mobile-v-conventional system, I feel it's a no-brainer to go with IP. I can't imagine any reason that a person would choose analog. Particularly if you run modern cameras that do the h264/h265 transcoding within their SoC, which is key with an application such as this where you prefer not to require a high-power NVR (or prefer cloud-based).
RE: Back up cameras - Jack Houpe - 10-15-2022
SouthernDevgirl I'm just looking for something that I can see trees utility outlets power poles sewer and water hookups while backing into a spot. Also while underway the frame rate doesn't matter much to me as long as I can catch some speeding person coming up on my left or right I always use my mirrors first but having two choices is better than one. Anything will be an improvement over the black and white camera where you're consistently having to adjust the contrast to see what's behind you or when you're backing up. Technology in the late 90s and now or night and day as you know,. I appreciate your input and your knowledge and thank you very much for your comments!
The backup cameras is something I had in my mind for a future project right now I've got my hands full with trying to make this unit a functional place to live for several months. There are many items in this coach that are there but non-functional. This forum has been a wealth of information and I only live 50 miles from Newell motor coaches so I am fortunate to just drive there and get parts or information.
RE: Back up cameras - kaptain - 11-02-2022
There are several camera systems on Amazon seemed attractive, but I don't have any personal experience with any of them
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BCW76WV1/
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B4D9PNFZ/
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B093BQ5JCJ/
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B3RZCK3Q/
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B3RYZF1T/